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[railml3] Signal types and functions [message #2132] Fri, 08 February 2019 20:41 Go to next message
Thomas Nygreen JBD is currently offline  Thomas Nygreen JBD
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This thread is also IL relevant

Best regards,
Thomas Nygreen
Railway capacity engineer
Jernbanedirektoratet
Re: [railml3] Signal types and functions [message #2135 is a reply to message #2132] Sat, 09 February 2019 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jörg von Lingen is currently offline  Jörg von Lingen
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Registered: March 2016
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Dear all,

we (IS/IL coordinators) have discussed the differences of <signalIS>@type and <signalIL>@signalFunction (may be renamed
to <signalIL>@function):

<signalIS>@type is about the physical types of objects one will call "signal"

<signalIL>@signalFunction is about the function of the signal as seen from the interlocking
"main" could be seen as a duplication but its meaning is more anything else but the specific uses - "The main signal is
a normal signal for train traffic protection which is neither used as block, entry, exit nor intermediate signal."

<signalIL>@isVirtual is especially considering ETCS systems were the interlocking in its data still has signals which
are switched to particular aspects. But on the outside there are only marker boards to identify the position of these
interlocking only signals. In that sense they are physical outside but virtual for the interlocking.
Whereas <signalIS>/<signalConstruction>@type="virtual" really means no physical object outside.

<signalIS>@switchable is a real addition to <signalConstruction>@type because there are signals of type "semaphore"
which may be switchable or not, e.g. electrification signals like "main switch off". Of course, with "light" signals one
can assume they are always switchable.


Regards,
Jörg von Lingen - Interlocking Coordinator
Re: [railml3] Signal types and functions [message #2143 is a reply to message #2135] Mon, 11 February 2019 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Nygreen JBD is currently offline  Thomas Nygreen JBD
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Dear Jörg,

Jörg von Lingen wrote on Sat, 09 February 2019 09:32

<signalIL>@signalFunction is about the function of the signal as seen from the interlocking
"main" could be seen as a duplication but its meaning is more anything else but the specific uses - "The main signal is
a normal signal for train traffic protection which is neither used as block, entry, exit nor intermediate signal."

Even with this kind of definition, "main" or "distant" still describes another type of property than "exit" or "entry". Hence, there should be two different attributes.

Quote:

<signalIL>@isVirtual is especially considering ETCS systems were the interlocking in its data still has signals which
are switched to particular aspects. But on the outside there are only marker boards to identify the position of these
interlocking only signals. In that sense they are physical outside but virtual for the interlocking.
Whereas <signalIS>/<signalConstruction>@type="virtual" really means no physical object outside.

OK. I assume that there may also be other cases where the signal model in the IL differs from the actual (or non-existing) signal outside, in which case it would also then be considered virtual?


Best regards,
Thomas Nygreen
Railway capacity engineer
Jernbanedirektoratet
Re: [railml3] Signal types and functions [message #3195 is a reply to message #2143] Fri, 23 February 2024 10:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Torben Brand is currently offline  Torben Brand
Messages: 158
Registered: March 2016
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I allow myself to revive this old post as it is relevant to the topic. The latest relevant discussions and implementations and suggestions can be found in the infrastructure forum in the postings [1] and [2]

The current modelling is good, but we need a more unambiguous definition of what is a «main» signal in IL terms and which signal@functions are concidered to be «main».

Suggestion:
Definition «main» in IL terms: signal that forms a route start or end with handlesRouteType@ref to hasRouteType@genericRouteType="normal".
Alternative definition: a main signal is located at the railway vehicles movement end of authority.

signal@functions that are considered to be «main»: entry, exit, intermediate (in station) and block (on open line).
This based upon existing listing in deprecated «main» enumeration.

If this is correct please revise XSD documentation (and subsequent wiki) with (bold=new, italics=remove):
• block: The block signal is a main signal used on the open line at the start of a block route.
• entry: The entry signal is a the main signal protecting the entrance of a station from the open line.
• exit: The exit signal is a main signal at the start of a route from within a station onto the open line.
• intermediate: The intermediate signal is a main signal within a station neither used for entry nor exit routes.

[1] https://www.railml.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&goto=3070&a mp;&srch=signal+main#msg_3070
[2] https://www.railml.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=648
Re: [railml3] Signal types and functions [message #3198 is a reply to message #2135] Wed, 28 February 2024 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Torben Brand is currently offline  Torben Brand
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Registered: March 2016
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Jernbanedirektoratet and Bane NOR need a definition.

Which is the correct enumeration value to use in signalIL@function for an "end" markerboard (ETCS) or "end of route board" (conventional optical system)? This is always a (marker)board that is placed at a buffer stop.
See example in the advanced example:
https://railoscope.com/tickets/Fyh1WAZliOQbgVmY?modelId=64d2 293fb1421a4b8096c580&selectId=123-4

Or should a new "other:end" value be introduced?
Re: [railml3] Signal types and functions [message #3199 is a reply to message #3198] Sun, 03 March 2024 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jörg von Lingen is currently offline  Jörg von Lingen
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Registered: March 2016
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This is a good remark. Until now the signalIL@function did not consider such a
signal/marker board placed at a buffer stop. Thus we shall add "trackEnd" for
such function. The proposed "end" might be ambiguous.


Best regards,
Joerg v. Lingen - Interlocking Coordinator

On 28.02.2024 11:56, Torben Brand wrote:
> Jernbanedirektoratet and Bane NOR need a definition.
>
> Which is the correct enumeration value to use in
> signalIL@function for an "end" markerboard (ETCS) or "end of
> route board" (conventional optical system)? This is always a
> (marker)board that is placed at a buffer stop. See example in the advanced
> example:
> https://railoscope.com/tickets/Fyh1WAZliOQbgVmY?modelId=64d2 293fb1421a4b8096c580&selectId=123-4
>
> Or should a new "other:end" value be introduced?
>
Re: [railml3] Signal types and functions [message #3200 is a reply to message #3195] Tue, 05 March 2024 06:25 Go to previous message
Jörg von Lingen is currently offline  Jörg von Lingen
Messages: 88
Registered: March 2016
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Dear all,

the differentiation of values for <signalIS>@type and for <signalIL>@signalFunction are still not clear to everyone.

<signalIS>@type shall define the basic types of signals like main, distant and shunting signal. This basic classification might be enough for some user. If more details are needed than <signalIL>@signalFunction is to be used in addition covering the interlocking related functions of the signal.

In case of type="main" the possible functions can be https://wiki3.railml.org/wiki/IL:signalIL:
- block
- entry
- exit
- group
- intermediate
- intermediateStop
- junction
- trackEnd (with v3.3)

The values 'blockInterface' and 'lineInterface' are like a main signal but a supporting virtual construction used to transfer information over the border between two interlockings or between station and open line. As they are virtual and for interlocking use only they will never appear as signalIS.

The types 'shunting' and 'distant' are related to similar functions, i.e. type="shunting" + function="shunting" or type="distant" + function="distant".

--
Best regards,
Joerg v. Lingen - Interlocking Coordinator
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