Home » railML newsgroups » railML.infrastructure » [railML2] Single and double derailer (Proposal for modeling of single and double derailers in railML2)
[railML2] Single and double derailer [message #2983] Thu, 31 March 2022 10:27 Go to next message
Georg Boasson is currently offline  Georg Boasson
Messages: 18
Registered: October 2020
Junior Member
We suggest using the @kind to describe this:

- derailerConnectedToInterlocking
- doublerDerailerConnectedToInterlocking
- derailerWithLock
- doubleDerailerWithLock

Further we also need to define the preferred position of the derailer, we suggest:

derailer@nor:preferredPosition: "passablePosition" and "derailingPosition"


See #2906 for railML3 modelling of double derailer ( https://www.railml.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=855& start=0&)
Re: [railML2] Single and double derailer [message #3011 is a reply to message #2983] Fri, 10 June 2022 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
christian.rahmig is currently offline  christian.rahmig
Messages: 447
Registered: January 2016
Senior Member
Dear Georg,

thank you very much for your input related to requirements for a more detailed model of derailers in railML 2. As you know, we enhanced the derailer in railML 3.2. This includes the differentiation between single and double derailers via <derailerIS>@type and the default/preferred position of the derailer via <derailerIL>@preferredPosition.

For railML 2 I appreciate a solution that is very close to the modelling approach in railML 3.2. Therefore, I suggest not to use the already existing attribute <derailer>@kind as its values are defined according to the Railway Compendium "Railway Signaling and Interlocking" by Gregor Theeg: "blockDerail", "singleCatchPoints" and "doubleCatchPoints". In particular, I suggest the following approach:

* add new attribute @type with values "singleDerailer" and "doubleDerailer"
* use existing attribute @lockRef to link the derailer with a lock
* add new attribute @preferredPosition with values "derailingPosition" and "passablePosition"
* add new attribute @controllerRef to link the derailer with a controller element (interlocking)

Does this approach cover all your needs?
What does the community think about the need for a more detailed derailer model in railML 2?
Or is it sufficient to have a detailed derailer model implemented in railML 3?

Any comments are highly appreciated...

Best regards
Christian


Christian Rahmig – Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railML.org
Re: [railML2] Single and double derailer [message #3265 is a reply to message #3011] Thu, 04 July 2024 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Torben Brand is currently offline  Torben Brand
Messages: 161
Registered: March 2016
Senior Member
We have discovered that the norwegian railway sector would also need to relay the information contained in railML2 [1] for derailers:

kind: kind of derail device (cp. book "Railway Signalling and Interlocking" by Gregor Theeg and Sergej Vlasenko (Editors), p. 155)
- blockDerail: A block or wedge that fits over the rail. It will lift the flange of the wheel over to the outside of the rail.
- singleCatchPoints: Deflects vehicles in a similar manner as a <switch>, but with only a single tongue, in the rail through which the flanges have to pass.
- doubleCatchPoints: Deflects vehicles in the same manner as a <switch>, with two tongues, one on each rail.

Currently in railML3 [2]:
type: type of derailer from infrastructure/construction perspective (optional; xs:string)
Possible values:

- doubleDerailer: two derail devices installed on two rails
- singleDerailer: one derail device installed on one rail,

My questions:
1. Are "doubleDerailer" and "singleDerailer" both of type "blockDerail"?
2. can we add the value "singleCatchPoints" to the list for derailing tounges?
3. can we add "doubleCatchPoints" to the list for deflecting switches - for a simplyfied modelling where we do not have to model a ("deflecting") switch with a deflecting track and all other elements and atributes that come with a complete track modelleling (this for tracks not in operational usage, just for safety)

With kind regards

Torben

[1] https://wiki2.railml.org/wiki/IS:derailer
[2] https://wiki3.railml.org/wiki/IS:derailerIS

[Updated on: Thu, 04 July 2024 13:11]

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Re: [railML2] Single and double derailer [message #3267 is a reply to message #3265] Fri, 12 July 2024 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jörg von Lingen is currently offline  Jörg von Lingen
Messages: 89
Registered: March 2016
Member
Dear Torben,

in signalling context the term "doubleDerailer" is often understood as
"derail device blocking two tracks at once".

Thus we shall be sensitive with wording and review our documentation.

Dr.-Ing. Jörg von Lingen - Interlocking scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Phone Coordinator: +49 351 87759 40; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org

On 04.07.2024 13:10, Torben Brand wrote:
> We have discovered that the norwegian railway sector would
> also need to relay the information contained in railML2 [1]
> for derailers:
>
> kind: kind of derail device (cp. book "Railway Signalling
> and Interlocking" by Gregor Theeg and Sergej Vlasenko
> (Editors), p. 155)
> - blockDerail: A block or wedge that fits over the rail. It
> will lift the flange of the wheel over to the outside of the
> rail.
> - singleCatchPoints: Deflects vehicles in a similar manner
> as a <switch>, but with only a single tongue, in the rail
> through which the flanges have to pass.
> - doubleCatchPoints: Deflects vehicles in the same manner as
> a <switch>, with two tongues, one on each rail.
>
> Currently in railML3 [2]:
> type: type of derailer from infrastructure/construction
> perspective (optional; xs:string)
> Possible values:
>
> - doubleDerailer: two derail devices installed on two rails
> - singleDerailer: one derail device installed on one rail,
>
> My questions:
> 1. Are "doubleDerailer" and "singleDerailer" both of type
> "blockDerail"
> 2. can we add the value "singleCatchPoints" to the list for
> derailing tounges?
> 3. can we add "doubleCatchPoints" to the list for deflecting
> switches - for a simplyfied modelling where we do not have
> to model a ("deflecting") switch with a deflecting track and
> all other elements and atributes that come with a complete
> track modelleling (this for tracks not in operational usage,
> just for safety)
>
> With kind regards
> Torben
>
> [1] https://wiki2.railml.org/wiki/IS:derailer
> [2] https://wiki3.railml.org/wiki/IS:derailerIS
>
Re: [railML2] Single and double derailer [message #3269 is a reply to message #3267] Sat, 20 July 2024 08:40 Go to previous message
Torben Brand is currently offline  Torben Brand
Messages: 161
Registered: March 2016
Senior Member
Jörg von Lingen <coord(at)interlockingrailmlorg> wrote:
> Dear Torben,
>
> in signalling context the term "doubleDerailer" is often understood as
> "derail device blocking two tracks at once".
>
> Thus we shall be sensitive with wording and review our documentation.
>
> Dr.-Ing. Jörg von Lingen - Interlocking scheme coordinator
> railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
> Phone Coordinator: +49 351 87759 40; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
> Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org
>
> On 04.07.2024 13:10, Torben Brand wrote:
>> We have discovered that the norwegian railway sector would
>> also need to relay the information contained in railML2 [1]
>> for derailers:
>>
>> kind: kind of derail device (cp. book "Railway Signalling
>> and Interlocking" by Gregor Theeg and Sergej Vlasenko
>> (Editors), p. 155)
>> - blockDerail: A block or wedge that fits over the rail. It
>> will lift the flange of the wheel over to the outside of the
>> rail.
>> - singleCatchPoints: Deflects vehicles in a similar manner
>> as a <switch>, but with only a single tongue, in the rail
>> through which the flanges have to pass.
>> - doubleCatchPoints: Deflects vehicles in the same manner as
>> a <switch>, with two tongues, one on each rail.
>>
>> Currently in railML3 [2]:
>> type: type of derailer from infrastructure/construction
>> perspective (optional; xs:string)
>> Possible values:
>>
>> - doubleDerailer: two derail devices installed on two rails
>> - singleDerailer: one derail device installed on one rail,
>>
>> My questions:
>> 1. Are "doubleDerailer" and "singleDerailer" both of type
>> "blockDerail"
>> 2. can we add the value "singleCatchPoints" to the list for
>> derailing tounges?
>> 3. can we add "doubleCatchPoints" to the list for deflecting
>> switches - for a simplyfied modelling where we do not have
>> to model a ("deflecting") switch with a deflecting track and
>> all other elements and atributes that come with a complete
>> track modelleling (this for tracks not in operational usage,
>> just for safety)
>>
>> With kind regards
>> Torben
>>
>> [1] https://wiki2.railml.org/wiki/IS:derailer
>> [2] https://wiki3.railml.org/wiki/IS:derailerIS
>>
>
>

Hi Jörg,

Thank you for the answer.
I read it as «no» to my first question, and not relevant to the other two
questions.
Thus I suggest to add @kind with the same three values as in railML2.5
(blockDerail, singleCatchPoints, doubleCatchPoints).
The need to designate the derailer kind is from UC SCTP.

--
TOBR
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