Home » RailTopoModel newsgroup » RailTopoModel » Proposal for incorporating length information in RTM NetElement
Proposal for incorporating length information in RTM NetElement [message #1812] Wed, 30 May 2018 10:54 Go to next message
christian.rahmig is currently offline  christian.rahmig
Messages: 205
Registered: January 2016
Senior Member
Dear RTM colleagues,

the problem of missing length information in topology network
(NetElement) has been discussed once again and a proposal has been
derived and communicated in the infrastructure forum [1].

The proposal suggests to introduce the parameter @length to the
NetElement object. Following this, NetEntity locations have to be
adapted (attributes @pos or @fromPos and @toPos), too.

So, the question to be answered: do you plan to integrate parameter
@length in RTM's NetElement? If so, in which upcoming version?

[1] https://www.railml.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=572& start=0&

Thank you very much and best regards
Christian Rahmig

--
Christian Rahmig - Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Phone Coordinator: +49 173 2714509; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org
Re: Proposal for incorporating length information in RTM NetElement [message #1868 is a reply to message #1812] Wed, 04 July 2018 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
christian.rahmig is currently offline  christian.rahmig
Messages: 205
Registered: January 2016
Senior Member
Dear all,

although there has not been an answer on that topic so far, we need to
find a solution for the problem, because it is essential for railML 3.1
and related "beta 2" version scheduled for end of August [2].

In particular, I already implemented the required RTM related change in
railML 3.1. The latest version of railML 3.1 is available in the railML3
SVN trunk [3]. An overview of all the changes is provided in [4].

In this overview, adding attribute @length and renaming attributes for
intrinsic position into @pos etc. is marked as issues number 4 and 5.

[2]
https://www.railml.org/en/public-relations/news/reader/33rd- railml-conference-and-version-roadmap.html
[3] https://svn.railml.org/railML3/trunk
[4]
http://forum.railML.org/userfiles/2018-07-02_railml_railml3- induced-changes-to-rtm12.pdf

Best regards
Christian

Am 30.05.2018 um 10:54 schrieb Christian Rahmig:
> Dear RTM colleagues,
>
> the problem of missing length information in topology network
> (NetElement) has been discussed once again and a proposal has been
> derived and communicated in the infrastructure forum [1].
>
> The proposal suggests to introduce the parameter @length to the
> NetElement object. Following this, NetEntity locations have to be
> adapted (attributes @pos or @fromPos and @toPos), too.
>
> So, the question to be answered: do you plan to integrate parameter
> @length in RTM's NetElement? If so, in which upcoming version?
>
> [1] https://www.railml.org/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=572& start=0&
>
> [...]

--
Christian Rahmig - Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Phone Coordinator: +49 173 2714509; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org
Re: Proposal for incorporating length information in RTM NetElement [message #1907 is a reply to message #1868] Thu, 16 August 2018 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airy Magnien is currently offline  Airy Magnien
Messages: 18
Registered: September 2016
Junior Member
Mixed feelings here.


    Topology does not presume any measure.
    Length makes only sense for linear net elements, not PositioningNetElements in general.
    In the case of switches (at micro level), where do you place the origin?
    In the case of branches (at macro level - figure a double track line), same question.
    At meso or macro level for instance, how would you deal with additivity of lengths, (internal paths inside stations may be several, even between the same entry and exit points). Without additivity, lengths are of little use.

The discussion in the infra forum reflects most of the interrogations above, and restricts the "length" attribute to the micro representation, which makes perfect sense. However, given the recursive structure of RTM, it is difficult to introduce that feature without e.g. adding, via OCL, restrictions on where the attribute should be used.

RTM may be extended at will, as foreseen in IRS30100, so you may well add the length attribute to (linear) net elements if you wish to do so. But conceptually, more work is needed for making the model unambiguous while keeping it consistent.
Re: Proposal for incorporating length information in RTM NetElement [message #1922 is a reply to message #1907] Thu, 23 August 2018 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felix Prüter is currently offline  Felix Prüter
Messages: 28
Registered: June 2016
Location: Berlin
Junior Member
Dear Airy, dear all,

I agree with your considerations.


--
Felix Prüter
SIGNON Deutschland GmbH
Re: Proposal for incorporating length information in RTM NetElement [message #1951 is a reply to message #1922] Tue, 04 September 2018 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airy Magnien is currently offline  Airy Magnien
Messages: 18
Registered: September 2016
Junior Member
Following further discussion in the RTM expert group, I confirm that the proposed solution is rejected.
Re: Proposal for incorporating length information in RTM NetElement [message #1973 is a reply to message #1951] Mon, 17 September 2018 14:02 Go to previous message
christian.rahmig is currently offline  christian.rahmig
Messages: 205
Registered: January 2016
Senior Member
Dear all,

Am 04.09.2018 um 11:18 schrieb Airy Magnien:
> Following further discussion in the RTM expert group, I
> confirm that the proposed solution is rejected.
>

the decision of RTM Expert Group on this issue is not in favor of
railML.org, but accepted. In case, length information need to be
explicitly provided, new versions of railML 3 will foresee an own
optional attribute @length that may be used complementary to intrinsic
coordinates.

The latest railML version 3.1 beta 2 is available in [1].

[1] https://svn.railml.org/railML3/tags/railML-3.1-beta2/

Best regards
Christian

--
Christian Rahmig - Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Phone Coordinator: +49 173 2714509; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org
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