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Lateral location of elements [message #1798] Fri, 18 May 2018 13:19 Go to next message
christian.rahmig is currently offline  christian.rahmig
Messages: 205
Registered: January 2016
Senior Member
Dear RTM colleagues,

locating elements next to the railway track can be done on the basis of
a LinearCoordinate element and its parameter @lateralOffset. By defining
that negative values shall be handled as lateral distances to the left
(in the direction of NetElement orientation) and positive values vice
versa to the right, the exact location of the element is specified.

Question: How can I model an element situated left or right of the track
without knowing the exact distance? For example: For opening the doors
of the train on the correct side, I just need to know at which side the
platform edge is situated. From my current understanding of the RTM it
is not possible to model this reduced information without using pseudo
values.

Proposal: The information about the side and the lateral distance should
be separated in two parameters (e.g. @lateralSide, @lateralOffset) so
that it is possible to define the lateral side without a specific distance.

Any comments on this issue are highly appreciated...

Best regards
Christian

--
Christian Rahmig - Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Phone Coordinator: +49 173 2714509; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org
Re: Lateral location of elements [message #1866 is a reply to message #1798] Wed, 04 July 2018 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
christian.rahmig is currently offline  christian.rahmig
Messages: 205
Registered: January 2016
Senior Member
Dear all,

although there has not been an answer on that topic so far, we need to
find a solution for the problem, because it is essential for railML 3.1
and related "beta 2" version scheduled for end of August [1].

In particular, I already implemented the required RTM related change in
railML 3.1. The latest version of railML 3.1 is available in the railML3
SVN trunk [2]. An overview of all the changes is provided in [3].

In this overview, restructuring the LinearCoordinate by introducing
lateral and vertical offset side is marked as issue number 1.

[1]
https://www.railml.org/en/public-relations/news/reader/33rd- railml-conference-and-version-roadmap.html
[2] https://svn.railml.org/railML3/trunk
[3]
http://forum.railML.org/userfiles/2018-07-02_railml_railml3- induced-changes-to-rtm12.pdf

Best regards
Christian

Am 18.05.2018 um 13:19 schrieb Christian Rahmig:
> Dear RTM colleagues,
>
> locating elements next to the railway track can be done on the basis of
> a LinearCoordinate element and its parameter @lateralOffset. By defining
> that negative values shall be handled as lateral distances to the left
> (in the direction of NetElement orientation) and positive values vice
> versa to the right, the exact location of the element is specified.
>
> Question: How can I model an element situated left or right of the track
> without knowing the exact distance? For example: For opening the doors
> of the train on the correct side, I just need to know at which side the
> platform edge is situated. From my current understanding of the RTM it
> is not possible to model this reduced information without using pseudo
> values.
>
> Proposal: The information about the side and the lateral distance should
> be separated in two parameters (e.g. @lateralSide, @lateralOffset) so
> that it is possible to define the lateral side without a specific distance.
>
> [...]

--
Christian Rahmig - Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Phone Coordinator: +49 173 2714509; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org
Re: Lateral location of elements [message #1906 is a reply to message #1866] Thu, 16 August 2018 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airy Magnien is currently offline  Airy Magnien
Messages: 18
Registered: September 2016
Junior Member
Seems ok, but we need to clarify whether e.g. the side information lateralSide is optional or not.
Suggested: if lateralSide is optional, then the offset value always means "left" if negative (it supersedes any possible value of lateralSide). Alternative: lateralSide is not optional, in which case offsets would normally be positive and only tell how far left or right.

What is the preferred option and why?
Re: Lateral location of elements [message #1921 is a reply to message #1906] Thu, 23 August 2018 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felix Prüter is currently offline  Felix Prüter
Messages: 28
Registered: June 2016
Location: Berlin
Junior Member
Dear Airy, dear all,

I'd prefer your alternative solution.

I do not see how the suggested solution solves the issue of "how to provide a side without a concrete offset?", if a value for lateralOffset is still mandatory.


--
Felix Prüter
SIGNON Deutschland GmbH
Re: Lateral location of elements [message #1950 is a reply to message #1921] Tue, 04 September 2018 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Airy Magnien is currently offline  Airy Magnien
Messages: 18
Registered: September 2016
Junior Member
After discussion in the RTM expert group workflow, this is the result:



    - Side and positive "offset" (once the side is known) shall be provided
    - Semantic clarification: in general, "offset" may be positive or negative, we prefer not to use it in RTM because it may induce misunderstandings; instead:
    - Attributes @lateralSide and @lateralDistance are introduced, replacing the proposed @lateralOffset, where @lateralDistance is essentially positive. Rules are: both attributes are optional; if @lateralDistance is provided, it shall be positive or zero, and @lateralSide must also be provided.
    - Attributes @verticalSide (proposed values: 'up', 'down') and @verticalDistance also to be adopted, as suggested in the workflow, for reasons of consistency.

[Updated on: Tue, 04 September 2018 11:12]

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Re: Lateral location of elements [message #1969 is a reply to message #1950] Mon, 17 September 2018 12:29 Go to previous message
christian.rahmig is currently offline  christian.rahmig
Messages: 205
Registered: January 2016
Senior Member
Dear all,

the following solution / clarification by RTM Expert Group has been
considered in latest railML version 3.1 beta (2) implementation. You may
download the related schema files etc. via railML's SVN repository in [1].

[1] https://svn.railml.org/railML3/tags/railML-3.1-beta2/

Best regards
Christian

--
Christian Rahmig - Infrastructure scheme coordinator
railML.org (Registry of Associations: VR 5750)
Phone Coordinator: +49 173 2714509; railML.org: +49 351 47582911
Altplauen 19h; 01187 Dresden; Germany www.railml.org


Am 04.09.2018 um 11:12 schrieb Airy Magnien:
> After discussion in the RTM expert group workflow, this is
> the result:
>
>
> - Side and positive "offset" (once the side is known) shall
> be provided
> - Semantic clarification: in general, "offset" may be
> positive or negative, we prefer not to use it in RTM because
> it may induce misunderstandings; instead:
> - Attributes @lateralSide and @lateralDistance are
> introduced, replacing the proposed @lateralOffset, where
> @lateralDistance is essentially positive. Rules are: both
> attributes are optional; if @lateralDistance is provided, it
> shall be positive or zero, and @lateralSide must also be
> provided.
> - Attributes @verticalSide (proposed values: 'up', 'down')
> and @verticalDistance also to be adopted, as suggested in
> the workflow, for reasons of consistency.
>
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