Home » railML newsgroups » railml.timetable » Difference between 'load' and 'timetableLoad'
Difference between 'load' and 'timetableLoad' [message #784] Wed, 23 May 2012 15:21 Go to next message
Dirk Bräuer is currently offline  Dirk Bräuer
Messages: 311
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Hi all,

there are two attributes at <formationTT>: 'load' and 'timetableLoad'.
What is the difference between them?

> load: the real load of the formation while in use

Should 'real' it mean "in contrary to the formation as given at
rollingstock" or should it mean the actual load of a certain day after the
train did actually run? If the latter is meant, it would be a brake in the
philosophy because these 'actual', 'driven' data can be different for each
day and we would then consequently also need attributes like
'actualLength', 'actualMass', 'actualFormation',
'actualBrankingSettings'... At last everything can differ from the
timetable so to provide attribute for the 'driven' parameters would mean
to copy _each_ attribute.

Since the name of the Scheme is 'timetable', one should assume that all of
its descendants are 'timetable' attributes... A timetable is alway a kind
of planning in advance - the data of the already driven trains we do not
call timetable.

From our point of view, 'load' and 'timetableLoad' are redundant. So far,
we only use 'load' but not 'timetableLoad'. Since FBS is a pure planning
system, we only know the load planned in advance and never know the real
load of a train at a certain day. Does that mean that we rather should use
'timetableLoad'?

Best regards,
Dirk.
Re: Difference between 'load' and 'timetableLoad' [message #787 is a reply to message #784] Tue, 29 May 2012 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joachim Rubröder railML is currently offline  Joachim Rubröder railML
Messages: 0
Registered: November 2019
Hi Dirk,
the attribute "timetableLoad" was requested by yourself 2 years ago and
means "Fahrplanmasse = Masse Wagenzug ohne Tfz(e)". It was introduced for
version 2.1 and implemented by Trac ticket #59.

I would assume, that "load" means rather the real/actual load of a
formation while running, in contrast to the assumed "timetableLoad" during
the timetable planning process. If the real load is unknown, you could
assume a higher "timetableLoad" to get a maximum for the running time. The
attribute "load" is rather old and is propably used in different ways
without awareness of the detailed differences between real/actual and
assumed values. So every program using "load" should announce how it is
meant to be interpeted.

kind regards,
Joachim

Dirk Bräuer wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> there are two attributes at <formationTT>: 'load' and 'timetableLoad'.
> What is the difference between them?
>
>> load: the real load of the formation while in use
>
> Should 'real' it mean "in contrary to the formation as given at
> rollingstock" or should it mean the actual load of a certain day after the
> train did actually run? If the latter is meant, it would be a brake in the
> philosophy because these 'actual', 'driven' data can be different for each
> day and we would then consequently also need attributes like
> 'actualLength', 'actualMass', 'actualFormation',
> 'actualBrankingSettings'... At last everything can differ from the
> timetable so to provide attribute for the 'driven' parameters would mean
> to copy _each_ attribute.
>
> Since the name of the Scheme is 'timetable', one should assume that all of
> its descendants are 'timetable' attributes... A timetable is alway a kind
> of planning in advance - the data of the already driven trains we do not
> call timetable.
>
> From our point of view, 'load' and 'timetableLoad' are redundant. So far,
> we only use 'load' but not 'timetableLoad'. Since FBS is a pure planning
> system, we only know the load planned in advance and never know the real
> load of a train at a certain day. Does that mean that we rather should use
> 'timetableLoad'?
>
> Best regards,
> Dirk.
>
>



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Re: Difference between 'load' and 'timetableLoad' [message #793 is a reply to message #787] Wed, 30 May 2012 13:25 Go to previous message
Dirk Bräuer is currently offline  Dirk Bräuer
Messages: 311
Registered: August 2008
Senior Member
Dear Joachim,

> the attribute "timetableLoad" was requested by yourself 2 years ago and
> means "Fahrplanmasse = Masse Wagenzug ohne Tfz(e)".

thank you for reminding me. I thought so.

> I would assume, that "load" means rather the real/actual load of a
> formation while running, in contrast to the assumed "timetableLoad"
> during the timetable planning process. If the real load is unknown, you
> could
> assume a higher "timetableLoad" to get a maximum for the running time.
> The attribute "load" is rather old and is propably used in different ways
> without awareness of the detailed differences between real/actual and
> assumed values. So every program using "load" should announce how it is
> meant to be interpeted.

Well, I don't like these "do what you want" policies so I would rather see
the load being equipped with a certain meaning and function. So, my
suggestion is to declare the 'load' for actual load of a certain day
_after_ the train did operate in contrast to 'timetableLoad' which is
always a value assumed in advance.

It may be a contradiction that there are some 'actual' values in
'timetable' scheme but anyway, we also have already the possibility to
define actual arrival/departure times. For the moment, let's leave away
the "problem" that these values only make sense if the train has not more
than one operating day in the past.

For the more far future, it should be discussed and decided to move away
all the 'actual' values from 'timetable' scheme leaving the 'timetable' as
something which is always a planning in advance. Additionally, we could
provide a kind of "actualData" scheme for all the operating data of _one_
day of the past.

Best regards,
Dirk.
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