Home » railML newsgroups » railml.rollingstock » [railML2] extend <formation> with the attribute @load (formation, load, weight)
[railML2] extend <formation> with the attribute @load [message #2562] Tue, 27 October 2020 21:41 Go to next message
Torben Brand is currently offline  Torben Brand
Messages: 101
Registered: March 2016
Senior Member
Dear railML-community,

In the Norwegian railway sector we would like to use predefined formations for usage in the timetable. For this purpose we would also like to use formations with real referenced vehicle, but with virtual wagons and payload. This is possible today in railML2.4, but is cumbersome as you can only define the complete formations weight with payload with usage of formation@bruttoWeight. We would like to be able to define only the towed weight of the wagons and payload, excluding the locomotive. This in the same manner as possible in formationTT@load.

If this attribute is of interest for more users, we would welcome a discussion for a possible integration of a new attribute formation@load in railML2.5. Any feedback is highly appreciated.

If both formation@load and formationTT@load are defined, formationTT@load takes precedence.

PS. We also recommend making the definitions of weight, load and timetableLoad under formationTT in the wiki more precise. What is meant with "real"? We also recommend making the definitions of bruttoWeight, nettoWeight and tareWeight under
formation in the wiki more precise. What is meant with "of that formation"?

I have attached an illustration to try to illustrate the definitions and the suggested new attribute.

Kind regards


Torben Brand
Jernbanedirektoratet
Re: [railML2] extend <formation> with the attribute @load [message #2570 is a reply to message #2562] Mon, 02 November 2020 05:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joerg von Lingen is currently offline  Joerg von Lingen
Messages: 132
Registered: May 2011
Senior Member
Dear Torben,

that's a good idea. The weight attributes for a formation were simply "copied" from vehicle. However, the needs for
weight values of a formation are different.

[railML3]: I will consider this for the new development.

--
Regards,
Jörg von Lingen - Rollingstock Coordinator

Torben Brand wrote on 27.10.2020 21:41

Dear railML-community,

In the Norwegian railway sector we would like to use predefined formations for usage in the timetable. For this purpose we would also like to use formations with real referenced vehicle, but with virtual wagons and payload. This is possible today in railML2.4, but is cumbersome as you can only define the complete formations weight with payload with usage of formation@bruttoWeight. We would like to be able to define only the towed weight of the wagons and payload, excluding the locomotive. This in the same manner as possible in formationTT@load.

If this attribute is of interest for more users, we would welcome a discussion for a possible integration of a new attribute formation@load in railML2.5. Any feedback is highly appreciated.

If both formation@load and formationTT@load are defined, formationTT@load takes precedence.

PS. We also recommend making the definitions of weight, load and timetableLoad under formationTT in the wiki more precise. What is meant with "real"? We also recommend making the definitions of bruttoWeight, nettoWeight and tareWeight under
formation in the wiki more precise. What is meant with "of that formation"?

I have attached an illustration to try to illustrate the definitions and the suggested new attribute.

Kind regards


Torben Brand
Jernbanedirektoratet

Attachment: formationWeight.pdf

[Updated on: Thu, 05 November 2020 14:08] by Moderator

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Re: [railML2] extend <formation> with the attribute @load [message #2581 is a reply to message #2570] Wed, 11 November 2020 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Torben Brand is currently offline  Torben Brand
Messages: 101
Registered: March 2016
Senior Member
Dear Jörg,

We thank you for your quick reply and for considering the suggested attribute in railML3.
However the Norwegian sector would need the attribute already in railML2.5, else we have to make a national extension.
Re: [railML2] extend <formation> with the attribute @load [message #2583 is a reply to message #2581] Thu, 12 November 2020 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joerg von Lingen is currently offline  Joerg von Lingen
Messages: 132
Registered: May 2011
Senior Member
Sorry for expressing it mistakingly. So here my statement more clearly:

I have submited the attribute for <formation> into the 2.5 development branch.
<xs:attribute name="load" type="rail:tWeightTons">
<xs:annotation>
<xs:documentation>weight without engine</xs:documentation>
</xs:annotation>
</xs:attribute>

In addition I will consider it for railML3 development.
--
Regards,
Jörg von Lingen - Rollingstock Coordinator

Torben Brand wrote on 11.11.2020 10:25:
> Dear Jörg,
>
> We thank you for your quick reply and for considering the
> suggested attribute in railML3.
> However the Norwegian sector would need the attribute
> already in railML2.5, else we have to make a national
> extension.
>
Re: [railML2] extend <formation> with the attribute @load [message #2597 is a reply to message #2562] Sun, 22 November 2020 12:37 Go to previous message
Joerg von Lingen is currently offline  Joerg von Lingen
Messages: 132
Registered: May 2011
Senior Member
Dear all,

the @load attribute is a good example to stress again - in rollingstock always
the physical possible values are defined, in timetable the actual use or planned
use is defined. In the attached picture the first line shows the partially
loaded wagons - this is TT. The lower line shows the completely loaded wagons -
this is RS.

Best regards,
Joerg v. Lingen - Rollingstock Coordinator

Am 27.10.2020 um 21:41 schrieb Torben Brand:
> Dear railML-community,
>
> In the Norwegian railway sector we would like to use
> predefined formations for usage in the timetable. For this
> purpose we would also like to use formations with real
> referenced vehicle, but with virtual wagons and payload.
> This is possible today in railML2.4, but is cumbersome as
> you can only define the complete formations weight with
> payload with usage of formation@bruttoWeight. We would like
> to be able to define only the towed weight of the wagons and
> payload, excluding the locomotive. This in the same manner
> as possible in formationTT@load.
>
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