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ocpType begin/end/stop [message #742] Wed, 24 August 2011 11:59 Go to next message
Andreas Tanner is currently offline  Andreas Tanner
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2012
Member
Hallo RailML group,

the wiki says that begin/end should be used when "train part begins/ends
at this ocp and is not part of a longer train path". I think this is
confusing. Is is meant that the /train/ the train part belongs to
begin/ends at this point? This is what I would expect - but the example
file TT_ICN.xml has begin/end for every train part and therefore, the
information is quite redundant.

Also, what happens if the trainpart is used in some operational /and/
some commercial train, and while the operational one ends at some point,
the commercial train continues to some other final destination?

Regards,
--Andreas Tanner.
Re: ocpType begin/end/stop [message #743 is a reply to message #742] Wed, 24 August 2011 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joachim Rubröder railML is currently offline  Joachim Rubröder railML
Messages: 0
Registered: November 2019
Hello Andreas,
many thanks for your posting.

This is a good argument to get rid of the "begin/end" in the ocpType. I
would vote for separate new attributes, indicating that a commercial or
operational train either begins/ends or is crossing the border to
somewhere outside e.g. an other country.

The ocpType has currently a mixture of two different meanings:
- stop/pass to indicate whether the train stops at this entry or passes
this point
- begin/end at the first/last entry to indicate if the train is really
starting/ending or just crossing the border of the examined area.

What less confusing attributes would you suggest?

Kind regards,
Joachim

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Re: ocpType begin/end/stop [message #744 is a reply to message #743] Thu, 25 August 2011 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Tanner is currently offline  Andreas Tanner
Messages: 52
Registered: March 2012
Member
Joachim,

if I understand you correctly, the only meaningful use of the begin/end
attribute is for trains that are modeled only for some segment. If the
train is complete, than the begin/end information would be redundant to
the beginning of the first train part of the train and the end of the
last one? This should be documented!

Probably one needs different attributes for differents aspects of the
"ending" of some train. For instance, it could mean that the
announcement "passengers please exit here" is played (if it refers to
the termination of a commercial train).

However, the current model is problematic: what about this structure?

<trainPart id="1">
<operatingPeriodRef ref="[daily]" />
<ocpsTT>
<ocpTT ocpRef="ocp1" ocpType="begin">
<times departure="07:00" />
</ocpTT>
<ocpTT ocpRef="ocp21" ocpType="end?stop??">
<times arrival="07:30" />
</ocpTT>
</trainpart>
<trainpart id="2">
<operatingPeriodRef ref="[mo-fr]" />
<ocpsTT>
<ocpTT ocpRef="ocp2" ocpType="begin?stop??">
<times departure="07:31" />
</ocpTT>
</trainpart>

So the train terminates at ocp2 on weekends which forces that the
trainpart is split into one for mo-fr and one for sat+sun but all the
information is duplicated.

Best regards
--Andreas.


Am 24.08.2011 14:12, schrieb Joachim Rubröder:
> Hello Andreas,
> many thanks for your posting.
>
> This is a good argument to get rid of the "begin/end" in the ocpType. I
> would vote for separate new attributes, indicating that a commercial or
> operational train either begins/ends or is crossing the border to
> somewhere outside e.g. an other country.
>
> The ocpType has currently a mixture of two different meanings:
> - stop/pass to indicate whether the train stops at this entry or passes
> this point
> - begin/end at the first/last entry to indicate if the train is really
> starting/ending or just crossing the border of the examined area.
>
> What less confusing attributes would you suggest?
>
> Kind regards,
> Joachim
>
Re: ocpType begin/end/stop [message #777 is a reply to message #744] Thu, 26 April 2012 20:32 Go to previous message
Joachim Rubröder railML is currently offline  Joachim Rubröder railML
Messages: 0
Registered: November 2019
After the discussion in Dresden on 19.03.2012 and some later clarification
with OpenTrack we couldn't find a definite purpose for the begin/end
values. I therefore declared them as deprecated with r418 and closed issue
#123.

Kind regards,
Joachim

Andreas Tanner wrote:
>
> Joachim,
>
> if I understand you correctly, the only meaningful use of the begin/end
> attribute is for trains that are modeled only for some segment. If the
> train is complete, than the begin/end information would be redundant to
> the beginning of the first train part of the train and the end of the
> last one? This should be documented!
>
> Probably one needs different attributes for differents aspects of the
> "ending" of some train. For instance, it could mean that the
> announcement "passengers please exit here" is played (if it refers to
> the termination of a commercial train).
>
> However, the current model is problematic: what about this structure?
>
> <trainPart id="1">
> <operatingPeriodRef ref="[daily]" />
> <ocpsTT>
> <ocpTT ocpRef="ocp1" ocpType="begin">
> <times departure="07:00" />
> </ocpTT>
> <ocpTT ocpRef="ocp21" ocpType="end?stop??">
> <times arrival="07:30" />
> </ocpTT>
> </trainpart>
> <trainpart id="2">
> <operatingPeriodRef ref="[mo-fr]" />
> <ocpsTT>
> <ocpTT ocpRef="ocp2" ocpType="begin?stop??">
> <times departure="07:31" />
> </ocpTT>
> </trainpart>
>
> So the train terminates at ocp2 on weekends which forces that the
> trainpart is split into one for mo-fr and one for sat+sun but all the
> information is duplicated.
>
> Best regards
> --Andreas.
>
>
> Am 24.08.2011 14:12, schrieb Joachim Rubr�der:
>> Hello Andreas,
>> many thanks for your posting.
>>
>> This is a good argument to get rid of the "begin/end" in the ocpType. I
>> would vote for separate new attributes, indicating that a commercial or
>> operational train either begins/ends or is crossing the border to
>> somewhere outside e.g. an other country.
>>
>> The ocpType has currently a mixture of two different meanings:
>> - stop/pass to indicate whether the train stops at this entry or passes
>> this point
>> - begin/end at the first/last entry to indicate if the train is really
>> starting/ending or just crossing the border of the examined area.
>>
>> What less confusing attributes would you suggest?
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Joachim
>>
>
>
>



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